Sep 18 2009Publications Team, Association for India's Development(AID)
An Interview With VCA Director, Himanshu Kumar
Whats the current situation there?
Its desperate situation. The police forces perform searches in the villages on a daily basis, and the villagers are taken to custody, and inflicted with court cases. Women are harrassed, the men killed. Only last week, near Bijapur, 2-3 km on the way to Lingagiri ghaati, the police killed 4 "Naxalites", and called it an encounter as always, but yet again, this was a false encounter of innocent tribals. The police also caught a girl and took her to custody. These people are wood cutters, forest dwellers, but now they cannot even step out of their homes.
ghar se nikalna mushkil ho gaya hai! The CRPF have made their base in Chingal block. From there, they come together with the SPOs to raid the neighbouring villages, almost on a daily basis. There is a psychology at play here. Most SPOs are ex-Naxalites, who have the fear of being attacked by their ex-friends due to their "treachery". Many of the SPO attacks are actually out of this fear and insecurity.
Why did they change sides?
This needs analysis. One possible theory is, naxalites didn't force any ideological basis - only because they were holding the gun and asked people to join them and that backfired. that is why a lot of people joined SJ because they thought naxals are being defeated so they didn't want to be with naxals anymore. SJ promised gun, money, power, so people with the sole purpose of creating havoc joined. before they used to beat people as naxals on the basis of why they didn't attend their meeting - now as SPOs beating people why they attend naxal meetings.In order to save their lives, the people take up traditional arms, hide in the jungle, and then the Naxalites come and pledge them support. This way their mass base has increased. They now organise new dalams, and send them to other areas. This is how SJ has led to increased Naxalite activity, not only in CG, but also in neighbouring areas.
What are the possible remedies?
From the experiments we have done in VCA over all these years, the right way to go seems to be to remove fear from people's lives. Only then things become normal. In Nendra, Lingagiri, Basaguda, people have settled down. VCA provided "human shields", which means VCA volunteers going to these vilages and physically staying there with the villagers. This provides them with enormous mental support. There hasn't been any violence from either side in these villagers after the return of the villagers. But recently, the state is trying to catch people and lock them up, intimidate them to ensure displacement. Rehabilitation se state ko takleef hai.. The State doesn't want rehabilitation to happen.
Example of Basaguda: Basaguda is on one side of the river, and there is a CRPF camp on the other side, and there is a bridge in between. Earlier, the Naxalitess used to instigate CRPFs from the other side of the river. As the forces would cross the bridge, the Naxalites would bomb them. But now, people are using the bridge normally, on a regular basis. There is no Naxalite violence at all. See, the main point is, dont attack them. Once you attack someone, he will look for self-defence, even a cow does so! The govt plan now will have gross human rights violations and naxal influence will increase, not to mention violence. first people will die and then the rest will join naxals once the security forces establish their bases resulting in lot of casualty. the problem may last for 4-5 decades and the entire tribal community will be militarized/criminalized. how we are pushing the tribals towards this.
But the Govt. says that its hard to do developmental work there because of the Naxalites...
Sarkar jhooth bol rahi hai The Govt. is lying by saying that the Naxalites don't let development work happen there. We had asked the Naxalites, "Why are you bombing up school buildings?" Their reply was, "The security forces use these buildings as their base, and torture the villagers there, so we don't want these buildings here". In fact, the Naxalites said they are okay if VCA, rather than the state, takes up the developmental schemes like schools, etc. If the school starts again, naxals will find alternative arrangement.
Dekho, VCA ke alawa aisa koi nahi hai jo dono party se baat kar sakte hain... See, there is no one other than VCA who can talk to both parties. So, the key is to use civil society bodies to earn back the trust of people on the Government. The current strategy of the state is clearly worsening the situation.
We had talked to UNICEF regarding schools. They were ready too. But the UNICEF has close ties with the Govt., and is influenced a lot by Govt. lobbies, which ultimately forced the UNICEF out of this idea.
But UNICEF has been funding children and women's health and education in the SJ camps. See, all primary facilities like ICDS, schools, PDS have stopped here. Children are actually dying of malnutrition. So its important that these services are carried on, at least in the camps. VCA works with them in the camps too. Tribals have been forcefully taken to these camps, these are people we have worked with for long. So we have to keep working with them even in the camps. We run schools, anganwadi, etc in these camps. But the people want to go back to their villages, and thats also the only solution to this crisis. VCA provided human shield for people to go back home against threat of naxals.
How many villagers (net) have returned home and have settled back successfully?
400-500 families, roughly.
Lingagiri villagers got NREGA money. Ration cards have been distributed in 3-4 villages. The roads have been dug up by the Naxalites, so ration supply is not happening yet. I will go and fill the trenches after I come back from Raipur, if the Govt. doesn't do it till then. The Naxalites maynot like this, and they may kill me, but I don't care. The kind of situation that exists here now, you can't afford to care for your life.
The villagers in these villages have restarted cultivation on a small scale. They have been given seeds. In Nendra, they have gotten seeds from 2 sources: VCA bought some and distributed, and rest came from the Dantewada collector. Ration cards have been distributed. The new Dantewada collector seems interested in doing developmental work there. I briefed SJ's history to her. And she has been cooperative, though only partially. baatchit abhi chaalu hai..We are doing advocacy with her.
But the Govt. has been playing games with us. Take for example Sukhnath's (a volunteer with VCA) arrest by the SP. His bail application has been rejected twice now. We will go to the High Court now. Sukhnath's arrest is a huge setback to the rehabilitation process. And I call this the foolishness of state.VCA ko hathaane se yahaan violence badhegi, violence will only grow if you remove VCA from here. Many of our volunteers have left work, due to family pressure. We informed the police before going in to work there. But still they backstabbed us.
What exactly had happened in Sukhnath's case?
In Konta, a few villagers had been arrested from the bazaar (market), Sukhnath, one of our human shields, was there too. The villagers' wives and families asked him to check with the police why these people were arrested, so Sukhnathh went to the Police Station, and immediately he was arrested.
The case filed by the police says that Sukhnath and the villagers were planting bombs there in Konta. This is blatant backstabbing by the Govt. ye to kaayaronwaali baat ho gayi. This is cowardly on the part of the State. If they had problems with our work, they should have directly approached us and talked to us, or warned us. But they are filing false allegations against us.
You were apprehending your own arrest too?
(laughs) Haan, ab wo to jab hoga tab dekha jaayega We'll see what we can do when that happens. But Sukhnath's arrest is a step towards that process, the process of suffocating VCA to death.
![:)]() What do you think is our role as AID?
Organizations like AID should try to mobilize national/international media to come here and expose things to the rest of the world. Also, in more concrete and immediate terms, if rape cases are not registered in the next hearing, we'll go to Delhi and sit there in dharna, that come and shoot us, don't kill us bit by bit like this. Lekin VCA agar ye sab shuru kare to Naxali karaar diye jaate hain, is liye aur groups ko aage aana chahiye, VCA ke saath But if only VCA does this, we will be declared Naxalites, so other groups (like AID) should step up and join us in these drives. We need to take drastic steps to draw the attention of people.
What has been the role of media: local, national, international?
The local media covered the return of the villagers. Actually a lot of the local journalists were from Basaguda, it was a really developed village at one time, so they did a good coverage of the whole thing. There are a few unbiased media at the local level, though some are SJ affiliated.
National media: Someone from Hindusthan Times had come here, but she didn't write on Lingagiri. Sahara Samay also covered us. In general, rehabilitation has been supported, but daily news backs state's press release. The media people should come and investigate if those that are killed are really Naxalites. I have been in touch with the media, writing letters, etc. AlJazeera is going to make a documentary on VCA and the crisis.
What is the PUCL meeting going to be about What do u expect out of it?
Its about the recent developments. We want to come up with a plan for what the civil societies' role should be in general in near future.
How is post-demolition VCA?
We will be going to the High Court. But we don't expect fair judgment. Judiciary has become a tool in this exploitation. There are 7 cases like Singaram, but they are not ready to hear, date pe date liye jaa rahe hain.. They are just delaying the hearings by taking dates everytime. We have filed habeas corpus on the violence on women, but nothing is happening. VCA's work wont stop because ashram is not there. Take Gandhiji's example of leaving Sabarmati Ashram, and going on the Dandi march, when he said "I am not returning to the Ashram as long as my country doesn't get her freedom". The Ashram in Kanwalnar was not VCA, VCA is the people. We will keep on working with people, be it on the streets, under the trees, wherever.
VCA's current location?
Now our office is in a rented house in Dantewada.
VCA's work up to the demolition..
The Naxalites were cautious of us, it was never a complete "go ahead" from their side. They would stop us at times, but the people for whom we worked were in complete support, they liked us. The Naxalites would accuse VCA of being a government is implementing govt programs here, we dont want them here. But our tribal activists would speak for us, "this is for our children, you can't stop them", and the Naxalites had to compromise. Lastly they said, "VCA doesn't have political ambition, so we won't disturb them". The Govt. says that VCA is pro-naxal. Govt. officials/leaders had taken to corruption a long time back, and we intervened there, always. The Anganwadi, the schools were non-existent even before the Naxalites came into the picture, so the Govt. has always been unhappy with us. No wonder they call us "Naxalites".
how many volunteers are u left with?
We are getting new tribal boys, girls to work with us, which has replenished the volunteer strength. The number is 80-85 now, though at one time we had more than 200 volunteers.
Has Sukhnath been harrassed in jail?
Sukhnath hasn't been harrassed in jail. They say things like "gnaaov me waapas aa gaye log! aaplog dadagiri, netagiri dikha rahe ho, police se darte nahi ho"..."You people have come back to the villages! You are trying to be goons and leaders here, you are not scared of the police". That we don't fear them, is insulting for the police.
What was the reason (in his words) for their leaving VCA
Mainly family pressure, since they were living under constant life threats.
How much threat do you/VCA feel from naxals and salwa judum on regular basis? There is threat from both sides, but state-sponsored terrorism is definitely more worrisome. On the Lingagiri road, Naxalites recently caught 2 of our volunteers, they didn't believe they were from VCA, and beat them up. They took away their cellphones, asked them for the guarantee that the villagers who have returned won't go back again. The volunteers said, "how can we give you guarantee, but we are living with them in the villages". So these kinds of incidents keep happening. Also there is regular pressure from the Govt. What is the situation in schools, PHCs, ration shops in the resettled villages? Only Lingagiri and Basaguda have revived services like ration shops. People in Lingagiri have gotten NREGA money. The Bijapur collector is ready to work, he has been quite helpful. He has ordered the ICDS, schools, to resume services at these places. The Dantewada collector has promised helped, but hasn't done much till date. Actually the fresh IAS officers don't agree with the state plans, they follow the law and the Constitution. But many of the schools are being occupied by SJ in spite of the SC order.
We filed RTIs to get the data for this. The Dantewada reply was: we don't know how many schools have been occupied. So they haven't denied that schools have been occupied, but they don't want to share the data with us.
Bijapur said: 16 schools are currently being used as police bases.
How has the CSPCA strengthened the hands of law enforcement?
1100/1200 people have been booked so far under CSPSA.
CSPSA ko ye log wahaan lagaate hain jahaan saboot nahi hota hai..They use acts like the CSPSA where they don't have enough evidence to prove anything. Like in case of Sukhnath, PSA was used. Court darri hui rehti hai..The court is scared too. No questions asked.. "PSA? Naxalite? Ok, le jaao! (take him)" is the standard hearing. Weappealed to the court about Sukhnath, giving his background and all, but the judges will face enquiry if they give bails to so-called "Naxalites". So they are scared too.
What is the general psyche of people there after all this civil war?
bazaar mein kutta pakadnewaali gaadi jaisi gaadi ko rakhte hian, aur police bhi khadi rehti hai uske paas (vehicles resembling the dog-catching vans are kept in the markets, and the police is also stationed there). SPOs tell the police ki "ye andar se aaye hain (this person is from the interiors)", which "implies" that he is a Naxalite.
They are unable to understand why they are attacked. For them, the rest of india is an enemy. Its a dangerous situation, poori tarah se humaara admnistration zimmedaar hain, hume in logon ke dil se ye darr nikalna padhega (our administration is solely responsible for this kind of a situation, we have to remove this fear from their hearts).. agar fresh attack kiya,to inke ye psych ko pakka kar denge (fresh attacks will only cement this fear in them). People living on the other side of the Indravati river are not allowed to cross the river because of the threats coming from the police stationed there. This means they have to walk 85 kms one way to fetch salt and rice. Since they do not have enough money to buy a lot of stuff, they have to go there twice a week. So they have to walk 4 days a week.
So where is the Indian Constitution? Where are the fundamental rights? If they were allowed to cross the river, the distance from the nearest ration shop would ony be 5-6 kms. So how can they perceive India as their country? and other Indians as their fellow citizens? kaise? dekhte hi maar daalte hain (how? they are killed at sight!).. they can't go to politicians, administration, law enforcement. there's no agency in the entire democratic setup who listens to the tribalsthere is no agency who can listen to them, kisse kahen? (whom do they talk to?) they are left alone.. u r sending only the police, who burn houses, destroy crops, kill, rape, only police and nothing else..
In the face of this, when they take up traditional arms like bows and arrows, we call them Naxalites. The Indian Army is ready to kill them! 300 villages, covering Beladilla, Bhairamgar, Bijapur, sab gnaov me yahi haal hai (everywhere its the same situation).. we are working in only 10-12 villages, but there are 300-400 other such villages. Earlier when we had 216 volunteers, we were thinking of going into more of these villages, but all our efforts were deliberately stifled. They cut VCA funds, the volunteers decreased to now 80-85. they deliberately cut the funds - cut FCRA, branded naxal supporter to bring down social support. we work to save this system - asking for the democracy to work, and we are branded naxalites. the people who sit inside the system and are working to destroy this system, they are considered patriots.
Now people don't receive my phones, because they fear of being branded as pro-naxalites. The staffs' relatives are living in constant fear . And once you declare someone even close to the Naxalites, he becomes a social outcaste. But the villagers are our strength. They have been fully supportive, in fact, now they look upto as as Gods! (laughs)
What about their livelihoods now? how has the JSS program helped them?
This year the rains have been scanty, so agriculture has been hampered. There was an irrigation dam, which had broken down since there hasn't been cultivation there for 3-4 years now. We are trying to repair the dam now. So next year onwards cultivation will probably ease out a bit. Bijapur has officially been declared a drought zone.
The condition of forests and how it's affecting the adivasis or is it?
forests are ok, till now.
Corporate interests,what surveys have been going on in the vacated lands, what is going on about the land for mining and the steel plant ?
The state has been saying that the MoU's signed with the companies are a matter of national security and hence can't be disclosed, they have not disclosed it even in the Assembly. Large areas of lands in Vechappal had been leased out to Tata, Essar, and there have been 15-20 attacks on the villages there, so there is a correlation worth noticing.
In Basaguda, Lingagiri, wide roads will be built. There is an 80 ft wide road from Raipur to Bijapur, built by the Border Road Organisation. So you can get the army to come and build roads in a tribal area, but you cannot build schools, health care centres, you cannot provide them with drinking water..
whats the current situation of the cases filed? how successful has been the RTI campaign?
no effect.. they give vague replies, your ignorance stays the way it was.
We are disappointed with the judiciary, the hearings only keep getting delayed. But we will keep filing RTIs and cases. They know that they have done wrong things, so they are uncomfortable with such pressures.
Tell us a bit about the atrocities in the camps.
Its unbelievable, what goes on in these camps, and none of this makes way to the media. People who know us come and report to us.
In the Matwada camp, 3 people were killed inside camp.. aankhon me chaaku maar diya.. phir sir pe chaaku rakhke paththar se kuchal diya..(first they took their eyes out with knives, then they put knives on their heads, and broke apart their skulls by hitting on theknives repeatedly with heavy stones) we have filed a case, but hearing is not happening.
Rape cases: 6 rape incidents in one of the camps. 25th August is the final judgment as of now. the State told Supreme Court, "out of these 6 cases, one woman went to AP after marriage. Our officials went to her village, and villagers said that she doesnt live there (But she had already mentioned this in her appeal, that she had moved from there after getting married). The SPOs said that they haven't committed these rapes, so the charges must be false"
In answada, Dornapal, villagers were brought from villages, tortured in camps for days, taken to Shabari river after sunset, their throats cut, and the bodies dropped into the rivers.
In khirnapur, 10 people were brought from Nendra to the camp, and killed there.
In Uppal Meta, in an encounter with the Naxalites, 30 police, SPOs were killed. Fresh police force then came and killed 20-25 innocent villagers. 8 people were brought to camp, interrogated for the whole day, and then shot dead.
These are just only a few examples of what goes in there on a daily basis. People from outside need to come and see these things for themselves, otherwise these will never make it to the news.
The women in these camps are in complete control of the police. There are continuous rapes, none of which gets reported. We get the news through VCA people who work in these camps. |
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Video: Cockfight in Dantewada